What is the Number 666, and Should We be Worried?
It’s among the most recognized symbols and it shows up all the time, usually to indicate something nasty or wannabe. But is that warranted?
Let’s have a look at the ominous number 666.
We know about the number 666 from the book of Revelation, the final book of the Bible.
In chapter 13, John the Revelator discusses two beasts. The first one (verses 1 to 10) comes out of the sea and seems similar to an earlier mentioned dragon who gives it its authority (v2). The second beast comes out of the earth (v11 to 18). This second beast exercises all authority of the first beast in the presence of the first beast (12). One of the acts of this second beast is to equip all people with a mark on either their right hand or on their forehead. That mark, John explains, is 666.
Is 666 the Number of the Devil?
Too bad for all the metal heads and horror fans who thought it was, but 666 is a human number, the number of a man (v 18). Some say that, surely, this “man” must be demon possessed but that too is unbiblical. In the Bible no demon ever possesses anything and at best gets to influence people. In fact, God is the sole owner of everything: the entire world (Ps 24:1), and all souls (Eze 18:4).
The number 666 is often associated with the Antichrist, but it’s by no means certain that the two are the same. There are many more villains or mysterious entities mentioned in Revelation and other Bible books.
What Might 666 Mean?
John seems to invite the “wise” among us to figure out what 666 means. He says, “Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast” (Rev 13:18). This may seem like a summons to all smarties out there, but in the Biblical arena, understanding means something else than being smart. King Solomon says it like this, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge” (Prov 1:7).
Wisdom starts with reverence for truth, not with being clever, and certainly not with being hexakosioihexekontahexaphobic (that’s being scared of 666 – such a cool word, I had to put it in).
The Beast
The word that John uses for the creatures from the earth and the sea is “therion.” Therion usually denotes ferocious creatures like lions or vipers. A verb that’s tied into this word is “thera,” which means to hunt or chase. Paul uses this verb in Rom 11:9 to describe a trap. He quotes Ps 69:22, which paints a picture of deception and dullness that leads to complete ruin.
It should be noted that the word “therion” did then not carry the distinct negative connotation it does today. Aspiring beast-hunters should also know that the constellation we now call Lupus was called Therion in John’s time.
Suggested Interpretations
The most popular approach in interpreting the number 666 is to render numerical values to letters, transnumerate personal names and add the letter-values together (this is called Gematria). By adding titles and trying different languages, the number of the beast has been pinned to a large amount of people and institutions, from Emperor Nero to Pope Benedict and the papacy at large.
Since 666 has to do with trade, especially global trade, people have wondered if this number may have something to do with the Internet. It has been overly reported that the name Bill Gates III converted to ASCII codes would add up to 666. But a little scrutiny shows that this isn’t true. The name Bill Gates in ASCII adds up to 663 but the decimal number 3 has ASCII value 51. That’s 714 together.
Others note that the “w” is the transliteration of the sixth Hebrew letter (the waw), and that thus “www,” the signature prefix of all website URLs, transnumerates to 666.
A similar construction (that none of the dozens of the consulted websites, including Wikipedia, mentions, so I reckon it’s my claim to fame) occurs when we realize that the Hebrew word for lily is “sixie,” a word which is closely related to the word for six. Displaying three lilies (Pope Simplicius, 468-483, left, and pope Paulus VI, 1963-1978, right) does therefore seem not very clever.
All this would have been very worrisome is John the Revelator had said anything about six-six-six. He doesn’t. He is talking about six-hundred and sixty-six. And that is something completely different.
A More Sensible Attempt
Revelation 13 is mesmerizing but wildly guessing after its meaning has no merit. Even if we would accidentally guess right, it wouldn’t serve us much if we still don’t understand the meaning of the chapter, or the book, or even the Bible as a whole. Gematria certainly existed when John wrote Revelation, but nowhere in the Bible is Gematria employed or even mentioned. It is highly unlikely that John inserted a hip riddle in his book, and that the outcome of it denoted something that had nothing to do with wisdom, or even helped anyone who managed to figure it out.
Judging from the many references to established Biblical symbolisms, John obviously meant Revelation to be a commentary on the rest of the Bible. To be specific: it’s virtually doused with references to the tabernacle, which evolved into the Temple, which in turn evolved into the Body of Christ. All the lamp stands, the bowls, God’s throne, the trumpets, and perhaps even the sealed books, are all temple related. And so is 666.
Besides Ezra 2:13 – where 666 occurs as a literal amount, mentioned in a long list of numbers of tribesmen – the only other occurrence of the number 666 in he Bible denotes the annual amount of gold talents that Solomon received from the surrounding nations (I Kings 10:14 and II Chronicles 9:13).
The defining quality of gold is that it doesn’t rust and seems eternal. Hence gold is often used in the Bible as a symbol for truth. In Rev 3:18 Jesus advises the church in Laodicea to buy gold from Him. But Jesus also explains that gold doesn’t make the temple holy, the temple makes the gold holy (Matt 23:17). In other words: knowledge doesn’t sanctify the Body of Christ but the Body of Christ sanctifies knowledge. And this knowledge is not vague esotericism or limited to philosophical or theological knowledge, but any kind of (scientific) knowledge that would help people serve others and glorify God (see Rom 1:20, Ph 1:9, 4:8, 1 Tess 5:21 and Hebr 1:11 – the latter two references were reinvented in the scientific method).
Why the Six?
The Bible uses symbols and metaphors much more frequently than a modern text, and numbers are used symbolically as well. Apart from simply denoting a quantity, the number six often indicates an incomplete set or cycle (as seven denotes a whole set or cycle, still reminiscent in our phrase “the seven seas”).
Since the Greek language in which John wrote had no exclamation marks, he used an amplification technique that is common in Scriptures. Jesus does something similar in Matt 18:22, where He amplifies seven to seventy-times-seven. In effect, the number 666 could be interpreted as 6!!
Perhaps the author of the temple story literally meant that Solomon received 666 talents of gold each year (which today would come down to a cool four billion dollars) but perhaps this number was chosen to explain that no matter how much gold came, it was never sufficient.
If that is true, then Kurt Gödel earth-shattering discovery that any logical system based on axioms must always remain incomplete was preceded by Biblical insight by two and a half millennia.
Michael and the Dragon
The dragon & beasts cycle covers chapters 12 and 13, and its main theme is a handing over of the authority of the red dragon (who is known as the devil and satan – 12:9). Whatever that authority might be, the whole story is an obvious allegory of the evolution of knowledge, or rather the acquisition thereof. Here’s why:
John divides the whole of man’s mental activity in two, and depicts this division as a battle between the arch-angel Michael and the red dragon. The name Michael means Who Is Like God? Or rather: What’s God Like? And it denotes man’s quest to know God. The Greek word for dragon, “drakon” comes from the verb “derkomai,” which means to look at or behold, and seems to denote a greed for knowledge for the sake of self. The Hebrew word for snake, “nahash,” is identical to the word for to observe or to learn by experience. All this ties wonderfully into the Eden story in which Adam and Eve are tempted by a snake to consume the fruits of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
The difference between Michael and the dragon is often misunderstood and it must be stressed that both desire or promote knowledge. Yet Michael shows reality to be a kingdom, while the dragon shows reality to be a republic.
Michael’s efforts mould a mind into a centralized throne for the Word of God, while the dragon turns a mind into a cloud without a center. The Hebrew word for Word (or Logos) is “dabar,” which is the masculine version of the feminine word “deborah,” meaning honey bee. Bees dwell in centralized societies, may form vast armies, have a protective house, focus on living flowers, produce honey and care for their offspring. Flies on the other hand (Beelzebub means Lord of the Flies) are not centralized, are inveterately on their own, focus on dung and carcasses, produce nothing, and don’t care for their offspring. Bees are armed; flies are not.
Land and Sea
Land vs sea is a very common Biblical metaphor for stability/security/certainty vs instability/insecurity/uncertainty (see for instance Mat 7:24-27). The Hebrew word for sea is “mayim,” which is a plural word (literally: the waters). The singular form of this word would be “may,” which is identical to the common particle of inquisition: what? who? It’s this particle that forms the first element of the name Michael.
To the Hebrews, the sea was in the west and land stretched towards the east. The Hebrew word for east is identical to the word for past. The whole metaphorical system is obvious: from the past comes experience, knowledge and thus certainty and footing. The future is fluidic and can only be wondered about. Depicting the disciples of Jesus as fishermen thus becomes a very bold statement about their ability to harvest the great unknown. And the story of the two fish and five loaves (= seven items) is much more than a miraculous picnic. (Also see Rev 21:1)
The Beast from the Sea
Any beast that comes from the sea therefore must have to do with something pertaining to the unknown. My guess is that with this beast John depicts the great human ability to plan ahead, to foresee either future or any underlying system to appearing chaos by means of reason. Why this beast should have seven heads and ten horns or ten diadems (compare Rev 12:3 with 13:1) is not explained, but the seven & ten couple also appears in the design of the tabernacle (Ex 25:37 & Ex 34:28 or 36:8 and 38:12). In addition to this, Solomon states that wisdom is based on seven pillars (Pr 9:1).
Why one of the seven heads gets mortally wounded by a sword and is then healed is also not clear, but the sword is a very common metaphor for the Word of God (Eph 6:17). It should be noted that Moses the law-giver married Zipporah (which means bird but is closely related to the word for diadem, see here) and she was one of seven sisters.
When Moses came down from the mountain with the Law, his face shone with the radiance of God (Ex 34:29). Since the Hebrew words for radiance and horn are nearly identical, theologians of old thought that Moses had grown horns in God’s presence. Hence Moses is often depicted with horns, by Michelangelo for instance:
I’m guessing that the mortally wounded head depicts mankind’s natural sense of religion. It must have been through this avenue that God was able to speak to the first believers such as Seth, Noah and Abraham. Paul actually pulls off something similar when he invades the Greek mind through the temple of the unknown God (Acts 17:23). Also compare Rev 13:3 with Zech 8:23.
The Beast from the Earth
Following the previous, the beast from the earth must depict mankind’s entire body of knowledge. John sees this body as having the appearance of a lamb, which is an overly obvious reference to the redemptive element of Jesus’ earthly mission. Perhaps John wants his audience to also think of Dan 8, where a two-horned ram represents the Medo Persian empire (8:20). But I’m guessing that he still has the temple in mind, the temple that would become the body of Christ, which John most frequently depicts as a lamb. Just outside Solomon’s temple stood two pillars which had no other function than to just stand there. Their names are Boaz and Jachin, and these names put together mean: By Strength He Will Give Certainty (1 Ki 7:21).
John’s description of how society presently runs is chilling because indeed everything is based on information and the gathering thereof. It’s not enough to simply be a human being; nobody will do business with you or even let you subscribe to any service, unless you bring your social security number, address and bank account numbers. Our entire collective identity is based on the exchange of data. As John notes, there’s no way around it: all people are to receive the mark (13:16). The key difference between those who end up in the fiery lake and those who don’t is the same difference as that between the mission of Michael and that of the dragon. Those who worship God live, those who don’t die (14:9, 15:2, 16:2). And the cause of death is not their worship of the beast, it’s the lack of worship of God. See Numb 21:8.
The beast from the earth also creates an image of the beast of the sea (in blatant violation of the 2nd commandment – Ex 20:4-5). Again, I too am not sure what this might mean but, following the previous, I’m guessing this has to do with mankind’s absurd insistence to mark their mental territory with symbols. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we should adorn the countryside with crosses, or stars, or half moons and the likes. In fact, Jesus says, “By this shall all men know that you are My disciples: that you have love for one another” (Joh 13:35).
Should We Be Worried?
John the Revelator doesn’t paint a very pretty picture and if any of the described horrors will have a physical manifestation we’re all in for a rough ride. But I strongly suspect that neither of the two beasts will turn out to be something organic, as some religions teach. They would unceremoniously be nuked if they emerged.
Should we be worried? I don’t think so. The devil’s battle is with Michael, not with God. And there is no power anywhere in existence that can separate us from Him (Rom 8:38-39).
Nobody will be condemned by accident or because they didn’t manage to figure out a highly complex riddle, or any other conundrum. Salvation is not a matter of knowing all the right things (as Tony Campolo once said, “Even the devil knows all the right things”) but about being in with God. Some of us might make it through pretty clean, but I suspect a large majority of us will be slimed upon, bitten, marred by a wide variety of marks and claims, bent, broken and sunk nose deep in puddles of murk.
But there’s no way that any of us will end up on the wrong side of the fence.
Or as Jesus says, “These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world” (John 16:33)
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User Comments
Anne Lyken-Garner
On July 23, 2008 at 5:48 am
I was taught that the number 666 is a mans’s number (you’ve written about this). This is in the context that the number of perfection is 7. The number used for God.
We also have a saying, ‘third time lucky.’ Three being an acceptable amount of times to try something.
When the number 7 was used in Biblical times it meant an embodiment of perfection.(In the same way as when we say 24/7 we mean ‘all the time’ or when we say, ‘I’ve told you a million times’- we mean ‘totally’).
NOw, 6 is the number assigned to man because in his quest to be (not like God, but as powerful as) God, he has fallen short of perfection. Not once, not twice but 3 times. Having tried his best to take on the power of God, man has failed totally. Hence 666.
This does not include humans trying to live good lives, only those who, for the love of power, have tried to be gods themselves.
Sorry for the long comment, I know you’ve covered a lot of this.
Arie Uittenbogaard
On July 23, 2008 at 6:13 am
Hi Anne,
Thanks for commenting.
What you say is true but I’m not sure if John actually meant to state this truth in Rev 13.
The number 666 is not six-six-six but six hundred sixty six. Your explanation is a so-called ‘orphan-method,’ it works only once and is not part of a larger symbolic system. In essence, it’s a face in a cloud. And it also doesn’t really explain the rest of Rev 13…
My personal favorite explanation is the Chaotic Set Theory. I don’t mention it in the article, but here it is:
http://www.abarim-publications.com/WeekOfWeeks.html
Leo Reyes
On July 23, 2008 at 10:07 am
Nice, well researched article..
John
On July 23, 2008 at 11:48 am
Interesting article, I was raised from an early age on the Bible and I am Christian,because there have been so many “interpretations” of what John the Revelator meant, a thorough Bible study is Suggested, I believe,read thoroughly the Bible speaks for itself.
On a side note, the number 666 has been associated(accurately or not)with Prince Charles of Wales in our time,it is interesting to note that he is of royal blood, and known to be very “charismatic”…..further is a look at Charles’ Coat of Arms
First note that mythological animals and imaginative creatures, monsters and hybrids are popular devices in heraldry and, in heraldic language, are referred to as “beasts.”
This beast on the left-hand side of Charles’ coat of arms has the head and mouth of a lion, the body of a leopard, and the feet of a bear. Typically in heraldry, lions have only three claws per foot while bears will have four or five. This lion has four claws and thus resembles those of a bear. Traditionally in heraldry, the lion has represented England, however Prince Charles’ heraldic representation is totally unique in history even differing from that of his mother’s, Queen Elizabeth, whose lion has the typical three claws per foot.
(Rev 13:2 KJV) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority
so the question that this begs is…..Is Charles the anti-christ? Some think so and from studies done and all research I’d say the possibility is very high, I’d say be on gaurd.
magda
On July 23, 2008 at 12:11 pm
“In the Bible no demon ever possesses anything and at best gets to influence people.”
Mark 3:11
Acts 8:7
Mark 1:25
Mark 5:1-20
Luke 22:3
These are just a few verses that show people who were possessed by demons. Those who have chosen to not follow God are subject to Satan. Everything in the world is Gods (Psalm 50:12) but Satan is the ruler of this world. Matt 4:1-11 shows Satan promising to give Jesus kingdoms if he bowed down to him, something Satan could only do if he had authority.
R.J.D.
On July 23, 2008 at 12:14 pm
six hundred and sixty six is a human number,that’s true, but the human whose name the number represents is the anti-christ, the above comment was interesting so I had to throw that bit of information in.
Arie Uittenbogaard
On July 23, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Magda: I’m aware of these references. The English translation is not correct. No demon ever possesses anything, no matter how much he bothers a person.
Arie Uittenbogaard
On July 23, 2008 at 1:04 pm
R.J.D.: It is by no means certain that the bearer of the number 666 is the antichrist. There are many more villains mentioned in the Bible, and certainly in Revelation.
R.J.D
On July 23, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Arie, you said “It is by no means certain that the bearer of the number 666 is the antichrist. There are many more villains mentioned in the Bible, and certainly in Revelation.”
yet the Bible states “And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
(Note here “OR THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME”)
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.
Revelation 13:16-18
Read in context of the other verses, it is CRYSTAL clear who it is referring to
for future reference
On July 23, 2008 at 1:57 pm
No offense Arie, but do more research before you go trying to write on a topic, not just this one, but ANY future topic, or people who have actually done their homework might call you on your lack of knowledge,and therefore lack of credibility, this was an ok article, but it could have been so much better, if it were better researched, and by the way, when the Bible is clear on something, why do people still debate it or try to downplay it? I always wondered about that
magda
On July 23, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Arie: the word used is:
daimonivzomai (Greek – which is used in the N.T.)
1. to be under the power of a demon.
qanah (Hebrew)
1. to get, acquire, create, buy, possess
1. (Qal)
1. to get, acquire, obtain 1a
2. of God originating, creating, redeeming His people 1a
1. possessor 1a
3. of Eve acquiring 1a
4. of acquiring knowledge, wisdom
1. to buy
5. (Niphal) to be bought
6. (Hiphil) to cause to possess
Translation seems pretty correct to me. Considering Hebrew and Greek are still spoken today the “in-correct translation” argument doesn’t really work. All you have to do is learn the language or ask somebody who knows the language to give the correct translation.
P.S. from For future reference
On July 23, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Magda pointed out a major flaw in your article(which you most likely were NOT aware of based on your apparent lack of research) and instead of admitting YOUR error, you played it off by saying there was an “error in translation”, come on…..we are not ignorant
Shawny Nevill
On July 23, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Very interesting read. I like how you list the scriptures to show exactly where you got the information.
I have never heard the theory that 666 might be WWW. Very interesting!
Arie Uittenbogaard
On July 23, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Magda: The Hebrew and Greek spoken today differ strongly from the languages in which the Bible was written. Beneath the verbs you mention lays the meaning of a laying hold of, and that I certainly don’t deny. But speaking of possession implies ownership, and that is incorrect. God owns everything.
And yes, satan promises Jesus all the kingdoms of the world but that doesn’t mean they were his to give.
R.J.D.: Claiming that Revelation is crystal clear is rather bold. It’s obvious that the beast and the antichrist are in the same league but I see no proof that they are one and the same. Satan has quite a few agents.
R.J.D.
On July 23, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Anybody who reads the reference in context and without an agenda set up to downplay and negate the facts, knows the Beast refers to the antichrist,it is clear, as the number of the beast is a HUMAN number,and his number is 666. Sorry, You’re grasping at straws Arie. It clearly states what it states and I am not here to debate, when you’re wrong and you’re called on it, at least be humble enough to correct yourself
agrees w/ R.J.
On July 23, 2008 at 2:58 pm
the only way the Beast could force anyone to receive his mark is by taking human form, in the person of the antichrist,that is common sense Arie, so your argument is negated and shows only, as R.J. stated, that you are grasping at straws even in the face of the facts,
why does everything become a debate?
On July 23, 2008 at 3:02 pm
stop the debating and just update the article with better research, it’s that simple
FireforChrist
On July 23, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I have heard that argument concerning possession before.
From what I understand through study of the Word and varied real encounters. You can be owned or be under the power of a demon. Some demons have more power over a person than others. Demons can be in the body of a person or on the person or they can be in the body of the person but not have control of the soul or spirit of the person. Demons can get limited control of the soul and spirit of a person.
I let demons get control of me years ago because I refused to obey something God wanted me to do. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Witchcraft submits you to the power of demons. I had to be delivered of my demons.
So technically you should not be able to be owned or possessed by a demon. But practically God allows people to be owned and possessed by demons. God has allowed Satan to be ruler of this world in the same way. These things are only possible because of human rebellion. Satan can do what he does with God’s permission. Remember Job.
David
a little common sense please
On July 23, 2008 at 3:13 pm
the antichrist is the devil’s chief agent, so it only makes sense that he and the beast are one and the same
magda
On July 23, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Thank you for sharing David!
@Arie: the translations I gave you are from the correct time period and there are still people who speak the “ancient” language. We are talking about the N.T. here which is written in Greek and there is only one translation: to be under the power of a demon.
Davids comment also makes it very clear that demon possession happens. Anyone who has a basic understanding (not to mention theologians) of Judaism or Christianity understands this.
As far as Revelations goes – it hasn’t all happened yet, so, most of what we’re talking about is speculation. We won’t know until it happens, but we can study it so we will recognize it when it the time comes.
Pat
On July 23, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Your analysis is quite thorough and some rings true, but when it gets into allegory, it loses supporting evidence. I\’ve just finished a year long inductive study of the Book of Daniel and I\’ll share this one part about beast terminology. In comparing scripture to scripture one can fine tune details and get the big picture. When Nebuchadnezzer had his prophetic dream he saw a metallic statue of man. But, When Daniel had the same prophetic dream he saw beasts. Both dreams told what would be happening to Gentile nations in the near future and the future at the end. Daniel\’s dream was from God\’s point of view, how God conveyed spiritual truths. These animals(beasts) have no conscience-they just follow their own natural instincts. When John writes Revelation he discusses the dragon, the serpent of old that appeared in garden of Eden. This is satan, of course, and satan will be the power behind the Beasts. Accepted Biblical symbolism for power is depicted in HORNS. The prophecies in Daniel came true right to the day as the kingdoms and kings rose and fell from power just as predicted. King Cyrus was prophecied by name to rule 200 years before he was even born. The study of Biblical Prophecy that has already come true is Faith Building. It\’s good that so many spend time in the Word and thus better get to know the author. And we can share and get understanding from each other as we build precepts upon precepts.
Arie Uittenbogaard
On July 23, 2008 at 3:50 pm
FireforChrist: I appreciate you comment and I largely agree with you. But in the matter of ownership there can not be any confusion: God owns everything. Satan is a thief, and granting him ownership of anything makes you an accomplice to grand larceny. If a man comes up to me on the street and offers me a red Ferrari, I’d check first if he hasn’t stolen it first. And if someone steels my car and drives off with it, he still is not the owner of it.
Pat: Thanks for your insights. And you’re right, this article wasn’t intended to be an academic paper. I figured it was getting too long to also go into the Daniel parallels. My main motivation for writing this article was to show that not everything that is perceived crystal clear actually is it. There are always alternatives and anything grafted in stone should be avoided. God is greater. (Isa 55:8-9).
Gail Nobles
On July 23, 2008 at 5:19 pm
The only thing that we have to worry about is if we accept the mark in our right hand or in our foreheads (Rev. 13:15-16). We’ll know what to do when that time comes if we will be around because we read the word. We shouldn’t be deceived.
pat
On July 24, 2008 at 2:58 pm
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1139The discussion about the meaning of ‘possession’ was certainly confusing, so as I’ve had time I did my own word search. Accepted Biblical Lexicon from Strong’s Concordance are to be found at this blueletterbible.org site. These books are accepted authorities of language and the context in which it is used.
Arie Uittenbogaard
On July 24, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Pat, follow this link:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0158a.html
And scroll down until you see: “Etymological Considerations.”
Good luck.
pat
On July 24, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I could not get the website even tho I put it in twice exactly as is shown-always server not found. Anyhow, I don’t enjoy splitting hairs about word meanings. Scholars better than me have written these lexicons to help us, so I’m going to stick with ones I’ve learned to depend on. Thanks anyhow
Arie Uittenbogaard
On July 24, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Scholars better than you also wrote the study I pointed you at. Please try again.
pat
On July 24, 2008 at 6:53 pm
OK , I found it this time and I bookmarked it, but I’ve researched stuff Elliot Miller has written before. It’s time-consuming to examine his stuff, and I usually do not see his point of view based on my Biblical studies. He has trashed a lot of good people and sound ministries with his interpretations and critical spirit. I used to run a church library so have perused the Christian Research Journal articles there, comparatively with research books right on the shelves. No computer then, which makes critical thinking so much easier now, Arie, you seem like a nice guy seeking truth.
Damian
On July 26, 2008 at 11:18 am
Does this mean I should be worried about the marks on my head?
R J Evans
On July 26, 2008 at 11:20 am
A very interested read, thanks, Arie. The Book of Revelations remains a mystery to many and I enjoyed reading your article and the ensuing debate. Personally, whoever wrote it must, IMHO, have been on some sort of pre-acid age acid trip!
Catelin
On September 2, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Hi Arie
Whew, this is an exhaustive descertation on something that should not be tampered with.
Personally, I find some of your logic to be incorrect scripturally speaking.
There have been people who have been possessed of the devil. It happened in Jesus day and it still is occurring today. Satan is still at large. And all of his helpers (demons).
The number 666 is the number associated with the devil. To try to change what God has written is dangerous. One’s interpretation can greatly be lead astray by satan. The mind is his battlefield. Even devout Christians have to be on guard constantly.
Basically the Book of Revelation is a prophetic book. Prophesy is often hard to understand.
I nearly buckled with fear, when you stated no one should worry about what is prophesied in The Book of Revelation. Those who carry the mark of the devil, 666 on hand or forehead will spend eternity in Hell with the devil. Only those who have accepted Christ as their personal Savior will be saved…it is those who do not have to worry about this final prophesy. Incidentally believing in Jesus isn’t enough, because it doesn’t require an action, accepting Jesus is the action. Think of it like a present or gift. If you went and spend all the money you had on a gift for someone you thought the world of, and then this person did not accept your gift, how would you feel? This is what God did when He sent His Son to die on the cross. And until we accept this gift of Salvation, we really don’t possess it. The next step is to follow HIM. The Bible tells us how, when, where, for getting this done. Does this make us perfect?…NO. Perfection won’t come until we are in Glory with HIM. What righteousness we possess after acception HIM is His righteousness…this is a gift, like faith, grace, mercy, love.
Arie, I have to read more of your writings.
Clay Hurtubise
On December 13, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Brave man to bring up religion. Politics next?
666 is a number, simple as that. Modern man can make it fit just about anything, all a matter of interpretation.
The new number to worry about is 2012!
Thanks,
Clay
Thomas
On December 23, 2008 at 10:59 am
Hmm, it seems that this whole argument is between people who hold the Bible to its word, its every word, and believe there’s no room for interpretation, and people like Arie, who understand that universal teaching must sometimes be rendered into riddle and left ambiguous.
You’re downright foolish if you believe that the anti-christ will literally me marked by 666, like a tattoo on the hand or forehead. And also, speaking of taking things too literally, alot of you people against what Arie said seem to believe God is a person, albeit a mighty, all powerful person, but an actual person none the less.
Science has determined that people will see things they best understand and are familiar with, like a face in the clouds as Arie put it. So, when the ancient peoples were getting all their revelations and prophecies, those truths were rendered into human-like form, and then people (who again, took things too literally) began to fear God and Satan as they would fear an earthbound king, as a somebody.
God cannot be seen more than metaphorically, however. God is simply all the power and mystery that is the universe, and was perceived as something familiar, something that equates God to man-kind in terms of appearance and attitude. God, in terms of what God might actually be, would never punish anybody for sins that aren’t really sins, but simply part of human nature. Punishment itself is something we lowly humans resort to in order to feel satisfied and just, and it is not a course of action God would take. You aren’t going to hell, a world based on punishment, because the universe and God does not punish as man does. No sex before marriage? Marriage is a man-made institution, and sex is natural. Most sins follow that format, something conceived by man as a means of suppressing his human nature, in a futile attempt to get closer to God. The only way one can get closer to God is to partake in ALL that life has to offer, as God can be seen in everything.
As far as demonic possession is concerned, I must state again that humans see the familiar when confronted with something unknown. An unknown to everyone is ”What exactly are emotions?” Ancient man was confronted with the thought, and thus conceived demons and angels to explain away the two sided nature of man. To be under demonic possession would seem to me that that person is possessed by their negative emotions and attitudes, not by a corporeal sentient being (a little horned demon, rawr!)
Basically, what I’m trying to say is that at the end of the day, the Bible was written by man. Unknown forces influenced the content of the Bible, and man, flawed imperfect man, had to be able to familiarize with its Word. Man needed something understandable and comforting, and so the ancient Biblical authors used metaphor and ambiguity all over the place. Then, people just like you who took it way too literally, started Catholicism and the church of its name. Since these people thought they knew the truth, the one and only truth, about the universe, they were wrong right from the start. God, mankind, the universe, none of it can be accurately explained by any creation of man, whether a religious institution or a book. Part of the essence of the universe is mystery, ambiguity, ”uncertainty”. Trying to explain it is like trying to build a tower to reach heaven, it is impossible.
Thomas
On December 23, 2008 at 11:06 am
Also, I’d like to say http://www.abarim-publications.com/ is one of the most excellent websites I’ve ever visited. No, I do not have any affiliation with the site or any of the authors, I just feel it can do alot of explaining. I got here originally through that site. Just thought I’d leave the link for anyone, the ideas that site puts forward are astounding, and are worth going through, especially the introduction to quantum mechanics, chaos theory and biblical scripture. Agree with it, disagree with it, at your leisure, but understand the significance of it none the less.
KimP
On December 24, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Thomas, I challenge you to read http://www.allboutthejourney.org, written by a man that thought much like you, and set out to prove the Bible wrong. It may be an interesting read for you.
KimP
On December 24, 2008 at 8:53 pm
I mean to write http://www.allaboutthejourney.org, sorry about that
Oh, and Arie, thank you for your article. I don’t agree with every little aspect of it, but I do agree with the main points, and don’t believe in arguing small theological points in these last days. Been there, done that enough, and I feel like I should be spending my time on a much more important task, reading the Word of God itself, meditating day and night, so that the Holy Spirit will speak directly to me.
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