Michael Jackson Was Not a Hero

Good Rant! Michael was a great musician, Farrah was a hot girl and decent actress.(burning bed not Charlies Angels) I am also sick of this ridiculous worship over spoiled celebrity. Our society worships and then vilifies every chance they get. When are people going to learn that celebrities are just like everyone else with the exception of extraordinary drive and occasionally amazing talent. Enjoy their gifts but like you or I they too shall pass.

You seem to be quite a miserable soul.

You are from where? Be easy Mnofdichotomy..To talk so ill of MJ on the day of his death..not good..As far as the king of pop- say what you will but MJ revolutionized music with his contributions – Dude is an icon.. Not Curt Cobain or any of those people you metioned above are in the same league as MJ as far as his mark in music- Up until the day he died- that man still was a hit around the world – and had been for over 40 years. Hundreds of people held a vigil outside the hospital that man was in yesterday.. And you say he wasn’t big..Show me any of the today stars in the music industry still making big money and loved by thousands as if they just started out.. Hits like Thriller, ya can’t match..granted again he got weird as he got older. We see plenty of eccentric stars or people for that matter who definitely start to defy logic at an old age. With regard to Farrah- She is the original Charlies Angel..they are still making movies off of that series and every actress that played after her in the series looked just like her including Jaclyn Smith. Though she may have been on there 1 season, do we still not have the blond on in our current films? and the winged/feathered hair.. Trademark trend of the seventies and early eighties..On every fashion magazines. In addition did ya see all the tv shows for that era- All the girls had the same hair style- i.e. 3s company, 8 is enough, 1 day at a time to mention a few. Every little girl, wanna be model, teen girl in America wore that hairstyle. In addition, she had married the Six Million Dollar Man, Lee Majors who was a big star back in the 70s putting her on the map. Also her red swimsuit poster that came out in the 70s has sold over 6Mil copies since its debut in 1976. The chick was in her 60s and people still were buying that poster to this day..

They may not have saved the world though MJ did donate a lot in his life time.. But both of those people have forever made stakes in the entertainment business history. Just wait MJs stuff is going to sell for insane money now that he has passed…I haven’t seen 1 entertainer of today that could possibly reach the hype of notariety that MJ has…and still be remembered for years to come. Nice write though. It is all in fun on Triond.. God Bless – Princess

Amen!!!

“Celebrity-worship and hero-worship should not be confused. Yet we confuse them every day, and by doing so we come dangerously close to depriving ourselves of all real models. We lose sight of the men and women who do not simply seem great because they are famous but are famous because they are great. We come closer and closer to degrading all fame into notoriety.” Daniel J. Boorstin

I’m with CutestPrincess on this.

I applaud you Mnofdichotomy..there is virtually no malice in your article damn it…hehehe. I’m with you most of the way..there are so many women and men who are far more deserving of the title ‘Hero’ or ‘Heroine’. The comment about Farrah Fawcett being as dumb as a box of rocks p*#sed me off because anyone who loved the woman will tell you..that she was a very switched-on, talented individual who did a lot for charity – did you see that movie ‘The Burning Bed’ Mnofdichotomy?. Farrah’s death was sad but what’s worse is that Michael Jackson’s death has suddenly taken centre stage. Something else that really gets on my goat is that everyone seems to have forgotten about the little boys that were paid-off in exchange for their silence. I loved Michael Jackson in his hey-days..the Jackson Five..the Motown albums..Blood on the Dance Floor..History..Thriller..Off the Wall..but lets not forget the abhorrent crimes this man has been accused of..against innocent children. Not only are you an exceptionally good, balsy writer Mnodichotomy but you are obviously a kind, compassionate, honest man/dad with a conscience..bravo my friend…don’t let it go to your head neither.

Accusations are all they were… money grabbing bastard parents subjecting their own kids to a life of lies… to rob Michael of his fortune….. And check your spelling…. This is the worst article I have read ever and I only read the first few lines couldnt bring myself to carry on with this crap… Your a shallow human being the man has only passed away that doesnt say much about you now does it…

You hit the nail right on the head,Entertainers,Actors famous for what they gave us, are not special, shouldn’t be revered as worldwide heroes, just acknowledged for what they gave.Sad at their passing, nothing more.

RUBBISH AND NOT WORTH A COMMENT…A LEGEND HAS DIED..ITS A SAD WORLD OUT THERE..MAY HE HAVE A LITTLE PEACE AT LAST..

I agree that Micheal was maybe devoid of judgment. But I am not Micheals judge. I will leave that up to God. However it is sad when any human being passes on. We in America believe that a man is innocent till proven guilty. Micheal was judged for his alledged crimes. He prevailed and was found innocent. As a American I have to believe that the verdict was correct. In believing this I can find no wrong in Mr Jackson. However let me say O.J. Simpson prevailed in his court preceedings also. and I do not agree with how this was handled either. Micheal was a very well known music star who perfected showmanship for the pop colture lets remember him for that. the rest of the negative things where never proven. But if they are true God will judge Micheal.

Perhaps like you , our character faults and path in life ( often beyond our control) we deserve a little bit of what life throws at us. Oh and of course being clear of colon cancer means five years without a manifestation..have you had five years of clear blood samples yet because from the tone of you voice in this article you seem to harbour not just a little bit of anger. Oh and of course anger is part of the ongoing illness..so reflect on yourself for one moment and seek a little therapy for your spirit and hopefully you will emerge a true hero to your family , friends and the wider world just like Jane Tomlinson. Yes , never heard of her well she is indeed a hero because she had cancer and yes it did take her life but what dignity, what forgiveness and inspiration she left behind not the fascistic , mean spirited rubbish you seem to think will elevate the world. You see you can still be alive but to all intents and purposes your are actually dead and well rotted from the inside out.

It is normally customary to speak well of the dead
Ills we all know and can do nothing about.
Michael Jackson was a living legend
Deny it at your own peril,
You are a master of your thoughts.
When Brutus/mark antonym came to bury Caesar,
He said ”friends Romans and country men,
Here I come to bury Caesar and not so on…..”.
Julius Caesar was slain; Michael died a natural human death.

Please kindly read my tribute to him,

He was not my father, uncle or brother,
But he was the creator of music
Ill-wills attached notwithstanding.
God bless you son,
For the cancer you brave,
That does mitigate the value of another soul.
We all have to, must and will die,
No one can be left alone or spared the scourge of death.

God bless you too.

Michael Jackson

The sounds of music are silenced,
For a brief while,
As immortality soars sky high.
The world’s greatest musician,
Next to Elvis Presley,
Simply quietly passes away,
How can I simply,
My sorrow display.

A life fraught with insinuations,
A choice not of ones own,
Michael Jackson lapses,
Like others’ to a world unknown.

Albeit it be so,
But his name shall shine forever,
Like Elvis does,
Both to the musician’s world shall remain,
Alive for ever.

Sound stood still for a wee moment,
Two souls met,
Somewhere in the universe.

Come all musicians,
In their ever lasting memories,
Songs they sang,
We now rehearse.

Long live the two,
When the world has been deprived,
Of two souls,
Known world wide.

What songs can deliver?
Peace and symphony,
No amount of money,
Can counter the singer’s,
Love and memory.

Long live music,
Upon their souls,
Let music soar higher,
To achieve higher goals.

Note for the first time,
Tears roll down poets’ eyes,
There are no lies,
Sound tracks lie dead,
Here now,
Where Michael once lively,
Now lifeless lies.

wow this is nice, because it is SO TURE

Lovely Honey said, what I was thinking, it is how people are they do speak well of the dead, maybe that is a form of forgiveness.

I both agree and disagree but that is the beauty of freedom. I don’t believe there should be so much emphasis on these superstars when they die. Your right, what about the fireman or even the odd person on the street who gives what he/she has to others on a daily basis. Just because they are not in the public eye doesn’t make them less but they do not get they respect they deserve either. Farah died of cancer but so do a lot of other people that were just as much of an angel that people claim her to be. However it’s the way of popularity and things like this will never be any different. He may not have been a hero to a lot of people, in fact he was just down right weird (especially the thing with the baby) One might question his sanity. The man had problems that I think were never dealt with properly. Who knows tho, he may have changed some people’s lives for the better, some may have called them their hero. The only reason he would get more press is because he was more popular than any average person ~ it doesn’t matter if you are someone to the entire world, what matters is that you were someone to somebody.

I love this post so much Mno!!!! This is BEYOND needed! I agree 100 percent and I think that the world needs an awakening to these sorts of things. It’s almost as if when someone dies people think it’s disrespectful, or they simply cannot acknowledge the truth. We are what we are, and we do what we can do. Sometimes people make mistakes, or don’t do as much as they can. It doesn’t take away from the good things they DO accomplish. But it also does not change the bad.

hey, i went through many things in life and somethings i can forgett, but when i was young i loved micheal after hearing about all that he did made me think about why he do those things?? so left me wondering..check out my pic on how to find to center of a line..

Hero’s, Poets, Beauty all really depend on the individual.
MJ wasn’t my hero. As with any other musician, some of his songs I enjoyed and others I questioned his “sanity.” This is a “no win” situation because some people will agree with you while others will not. It is my hope, that you will not “attack” as did another poet when I disagreed with him.
Good write of an opposing view.

Hero, he never claim to be. But there’s not a artist today or past who don’t have a sad past.

I glad you got the rant out of your system.
The true Michael died many years ago.

He was not a hero: True!
Some of us danced his music, but his dead is nothing to write about (compared to those who are dying without any mention of).

Your word are \”hard\” and there are more important things to consider than these two people: All are walking same way to be death.

Very well written article. I totally agree with you, we should not idolize the deceased just because they are famous. Now, I am however a HUMUNGO Michael Jackson fan, and was actually just in the process of writing an article from a different stand point….his music being something I am passionate about…not only controversial (:

In my opinion, Michael Jackson is a hero. He went through abuse as a child and has shown the world that you can still be successful despite your pain and hurt. You can let go of that and raise spirits in the world through music. Michael has been the inspiration of many children who endured similar abuse and have looked up to him in order to pursue their dreams. Not to mention, on numerous occasions, Michael has met with dying children in order to simply talk to them, teach them, and inspire them. Just because he had a few run-in\’s with the law (and was NEVER found guilty) does not mean he is NOT a hero. Nor does the fact that he was famous NOT make him a hero. You\’ve got it mixed up.

Michael Jackson is a legend, that’s all. His memories will stay in the hearts of his fans

good point man. good point.

This is an interesting debate, with some very strong opinions coming through. As for me; never knew the guy, thought he made some great music at times, he had a very strange public persona which he appeared to encourage and there were lots of rumours about him and kids. What more can I say? I NEVER personally knew the guy, so I can’t get upset about it.

Wow Great point.

well i defiantaly understand where your coming from but i do NOT agree with it!

Great point, and I agree with you 100%!

Michael Jackson didn’t choose to die
and didn’t [publicly] live a bad, drug addicted
life. I personally don’t believe the
child molestation accusation, but only God knows what truly happened. I am no one to judge him for that,nor anybody else who doesn’t personally know what truly happened with that.
He deserves the respect and credibility he RIGHTFULLY deserves.
He entertained people all over the world! For you to say he is no hero is straight up disrespectful, he was a humanitarian and donated to charities.
Sorry, but I find you to be wrong in so many ways.
There’s my opinion.
Eat it.

First off Farrah Fawcett was not “as dumb as a box of rocks”, Michael Jackson should have been stoned to death in a box of rocks, hurled by every innocent child HE DID molest….it’s really horrible that his drug addicted demise had to overshadow such a great person with the inner beauty Michael Jackson could never attain! MJ was not the king of pop….Elvis is the King of Rock and always will be…as far as pop….I hope when he stands before his maker, The powers that be should POP him straight to HELL where he belongs and he can moon walk all the way to see his friends, Dahmer,John Wayne Gacey, and the godfather of HELL ,…HITLER….GOOD RIDDANCE FOREVER….NO PITY HERE PEOPLE!

whom ever is hating on Michael Jackson needs to do some research about the man before they could say anything. Till this very day there is no evidence showing that he was a child molester. You cannot compare him to OJ Simpson because the was evidence that OJ did it, as for MJ, there was NONE!!!!

For one thing he admitted sleeping with children in his own bed,for another I remember one child saying he took showers with him and even described some kind of identifing mark on his pubic region. If thats not evidence I dont know what is. If you had a sleepover for your childrens friends and slept with them or took a shower with them you would be lucky if an outraged father(or mother) did’nt put a bullet between your eyes. AS for him never being found guilty, a couple of these cases never went to court because they COULD prove it and he knew it so he paid the families off because he knew what would happen if he did go to court. hero my @##@#

You should read my piece, ‘Micheal Jackson’s, so what?’ I didn’t like the man or his ‘music’.

A very well written article, I enjoyed reading it very much… indeed it was also respectful as you attempted to make your point, which to a certain extend can be true, if viewed through your perception as you had highlighted so above.
But perhaps if viewed in a different light it would turn the entire story positive, for example, in my opinion we are all heroes, each and every single human being, as each one of us brave every single day, whether in hardship, illness, hard lessons, severe loss and life threatening challenges, we are all heroes.
As Mariah sang, “There’s a hero if you look inside your heart”… if the famous are getting accredited the labels that all mankind should also receive after their death, and in consideration to the large portion of humanity who had immensely enjoyed their artist contribution, should we really then begrudge them a final token of respect of being called a hero, for that is also charitable.

In regards to some of our musical legends, which includes also Beethoven, for he too was a man loathed by the end of his life but when he passed, everyone suddenly mourned his death and finally hailed him a genius once again.
Then let us be fair and recognize that the delicate emotional state of an artist is very much affected by their environment. Mostly the artists are labeled easily influenced, when in truth they are simply romantic idealists, which when accompanied with heavy media exposure and immense sudden wealth, leads the artist into a road of disillusionment and disappointments.
Heartbroken and in need of help, they cry through their art, they weep and they pray someone would hear them, so when our ears hear it, we cry, we weep and we rejoice; yet not one of us tries to help the crying soul, rather we stand around criticizing, ridiculing and pointing the finger of shame.

My opinion on MJ I shall now add separately for it will be long. However, I will add that for someone to achieve the unity he achieved so effortlessly, through his music, dance and artist vision, he deserves to be remembered for all that he did give, which was a very great deal.

No one ever said Michael was a hero they are just embracing him for the mark he left no one is perfect when someone dies it is proper to talk about the good things you know about them…(with the exception to Chris Benoit they had no business praising him) But I think you do have a good point about showing children everyday heroes.

Perhaps not a hero, definitely a joke in the last two decades, but there was a time when he was a great man and he used his fame for positive aims. It\’s important to keep things in perspective when someone like this dies. You can\’t just look at the last ten years of molestation charges and condemn the man as being nothing more than the scum of the earth.

I cannot agree more that the canonization of celebrities who die needs to stop. All too often we see someone die because they did something stupid like over dose on drugs and suddenly everything good they ever did is brought to fore like a shining beacon, a testament to their greatness. In some cases these celebrities did great things and maybe they do deserve the attention, but frequently they\’ve done nothing greater than anyone else who died that day.

I agree he was not great man. maybe not even good man.

The man was a friggin pedophile! I don’t care how great he was as a singer, performer, whatever. The world is a better place without the pig.

he dies and suddenly, what, he’s not a friggin freak any more? Blow it out your ass, people. Jacko was a freak, and his “fans” aren’t much better.

Some pretty harsh comments but we are all entitled to our own opinion. If you don’t care for the man at least think about the family that did love him. I think that deserves a small amount of respect, right??

I don’t believe Mnofdichotomy was saying he hated him…just that there are others who deserve the hero status more than he does. Donating to charity doesn’t necessarily make you a hero. Anyone can do that. It’s real TIME spent that makes the difference.

I have spent the last few days off work watching Farrah and Micheal cover every aspect of the news they could.i will not deny Micheal helped create pop music and will leave a heck of a legacy..but he hasnt been the Micheal Jackson i grew up with for many years.I like Farrah too,,,in the Burning Bed,Charlies Angels and a few other movies.She was beautiful and made a name for herself as a celebritry to.But take away all the celebrity status and they are first and formost just people that made mistakes to.I keep their families in my thoughts and hope both find peace as they rest in peace.But despite the contributions they both did,they are still human.But arent we all heros in someones eyes to..?Just minus the celebrity status?If we passed on,we would be missed but without all the media coverage is all…I have 2 grandkids that would miss me something fierce.I respect Farrah and Micheal for what they did but looks on them as people that hasd feelings to.They just lived a different lifestyle then us common folks.Now that they are going to be laid to rest,my thoughts are on the families and more importantly…Micheals children.Its bad enough their father is gone,the news said that Micheals 78 year old mom wants custody of his kids..where is the kids mother?The kids may become the focus of this after Micheal is buried….I have to wonder what they want or has anyone asked them?

Farah’s BURNING BED was more about femi-nazi politically correct man hating than any Oscar winning acting perfromance. Give us a break!

He is still a HERO! Michael will never die in us hearts!

Oh yeah, and by the way I’m 14 and I would have had no trouble being anywhere near him!

Everyone has an opinion of what these two people were to the world and are now in death. Michael Jackson has a lot of bad breaks and grew up too fast with an abusive father. I too can sympathize with him as my father was the same way. I do believe that a bit of compassion for everyone would make things look better. He was a hero when he was alive and now our hero in death, Farrah was an icon who will always and forever be remembered for her angel role and that famous red bathing suit. In my heart they were both heros in their own way and my thoughts and prayers go out to their families. I am glad the writer of this article survived colon cancer and I am also sure you are a hero to many yourself and you dont even realize it. God Bless

I agree with mnofdichotomy. I grew up watching Jackson and Fawcett. I enjoyed them both, they will be missed. And if Jackson was guilty of anything I agree that God will get him for it, like God will get all of us for the things we’ve all done wrong. But in the end, there not friends and there not family,,,so why should I care. The media is just doing what the media does. Sensationalize everything. I feel for the families but I’m not going to morn there death. Celebrity worship is nonsense, and for the weak minded.

My heroes will never be those who meet their end as the result of drug abuse. MJ, Cobain, Elvis, JJoplin, the list goes on. Perhaps they did have talent, but they wasted it by being wasted much of the time. Farrah, ok, not a druggy, but not a hero either.

How much more might these folks have amounted to without a chemical crutch?

I have to agree and disagree. Yes, celebrities do get a lot of attention whether it’s good, bad or just downright ugly, but aren’t we the ones who put them at the top? No fans = no money = who the heck are u? The media plays havoc in our society yet we fall for it, even in times of death.

As far as MJ is concerned, I wouldn’t call him a hero, at least not mine, but a hero is defined as someone who has distinguished themselves in the eyes of others. He was a hero to many, for some, he was the spark that made dreams a reality. For me, he was pure genius and I will always respect his work as such.

As far as Farrah is concerned, I think her story will touch thousands of souls and will most likely raise a decent amount of money for cancer research. Many people who donate to cancer charity have either been through it or know of someone close to them that have died from it. Farrahs’ story will evoke feelings in those who have not been touched by cancer and this will make a huge impact.

I think as parents, we don’t necessarily have to shield are children from who we think are not a heroes but rather emphasize the various heroes that do exist in our world. My children have tremendous respect for our soldiers and veterans alike as they do for various workers who put their life on the line everyday. However, they also hold a special place in their heart for the musicians who make them smile, dance and laugh.

Sounds like instead of trying to control the world, maybe one should try to understand WHY people let death drastically change their perspective on somebody. Your self-righteous rants about force-feeding your children who’s important, and who’s not, isn’t doing much for anybody. And, for spelling’s sake, it’s “our” children, not “are”. The only reason children matter is because they’re still a little bit psychologically free of indoctrination, and therefore free to love who/what/when they want to. Kids have a wisdom that adulthood takes from them. I say, let kids ride the wave… even if that means getting inspired to dance and sing like MJ, or shred like Hendrix. That’s what these people do for us. They help us remember our inherent creativity as human beings. Stop being a baby about it and try to understand it.

He was a hero! You should read this: 4 Reasons Why Michael Jackson Was A Hero http://www.socyberty.com/People/Four-Reasons-Why-Michael-Jackson-Was-a-Hero.834639

I can agree with much of what was said in the initial post. I don’t think everyone is calling MJ a hero. I think it is very true that he is/was a hero to some and I have no problem with that. One reality is that he was a supremely talented individual who made his mark in music and that can never be denied or taken away from him. MJ lived a very eventful life and some of those events were wonderful and some not so wonderful. I think that can be said of most anyone\’s life. MJ did many good things in his life and those things should be remembered. No one really knows if he was guilty of the acts of which he was accused. He knew, God knows and anyone who \”might\” have been abused knows. It serves no real purpose to call him names or put him down as some have done here. I do find it very irritating when a celebrity comments on something and many take their opinions as very valuable because \”they\” said these things. Their opinion is no better or more accurate than mine in many cases and in nearly every case, someone more qualified could give a much more accuarate opinion or statement. So, getting back to the topic, I offer my heartfelt sympathy to the families of those who passed away. I pray that all of them will face God and that He will show them His compassion, love and forgiveness.

Most people didn’t see MJ in a positive light because the media never showed people anything good about him. All they did publicize highly are the negative issues about him and never any good thing he did.

That’s how cruel media can be just to get higher ratings and viewership and all that. Tsktsktsk.

Everybody has a good and bad side. The media most certainly only showed the bad, that’s why people think MJ was such a monster and weirdo.

Yeah, right is right! you are right. Being good or even great at what you do does not make you a hero. What really irks me is because of the media’s bias and the hoopla around these “celebrity deaths” a real American hero has gone virtually unnoticed.

Retired Marine Corps Col. Kenneth L. Reusser, called the most decorated Marine aviator in history and was shot down in three wars, has died at age 89.

Reusser flew 253 combat missions in World War II, Korea and Vietnam and was shot down in all three, five times in all.

His 59 medals included two Navy Crosses, four Purple Hearts and two Legions of Merit.

More media coverage about this man’s life and a little less about Jackson would be more appropriate but, that’ll never happen.

MJ, You inspires us!Like a phoenix bird you rose yourself above the darkness of human race!You are UNIQUE, HEART OF GOLD, like a beautiful INNOCENT CHILD. RIP

to stephencardiff as far as Accusations are all they were…

The same applies to OJ???

Its sad that he died. It is sad when anyone dies. But he is no hero.He is no king of pop. He is a child molester and likes to hang babies over balconies! Don’t forget that. People die everyday and they don’t get treated like this guy does. They are heroes to someone. Give them the same respect. I think it so hypercritical to celebrate someone who we all mocked. Everything from he looks like an alien, should go back to outer space and he looks like a pale white woman. I think he looks like a white skull with a butt for a chin. Big fake lips too.There I said it. You are not celebrating the person you are celebrating his legend. Get that straight. He isn’t that special.You celebrate him for things he did back in the he first began and up to the late 80’s. He hasn’t done anything in the past 20 years but embarrass himself. There are more important issues going on in the world and we need to pay more attention to those things not MJ.

I have finally read an article that makes sense. I also feel sadness for the families, but heros, absolutely not.

FIRST AND FAR MOST HE IS A HERO BECAUSE HE SHOWED LOVE ADMIRATION POWER SELF WORTH ,,,AND MOST OF ALL HE GAVE MORE TO THE WORLD MORE THAN EVER SEEN ANYONE GAVE ,,,I GIVE MYSELF!! HE HAS GIVIN HIS HEART AND SOLE!!** BLESS U MY BROTHER U ARE MY HERO,,R.I.P !!**

Perhaps Michael Jackson wasn’t a hero to you, but it is normal in today’s society to praise, or at least remember the positive things, about a person who has died. While Michael Jackson was unquestionably the King of Pop, to me, his legacy is much greater. You cannot say that he was not a hero to the Eastern European boy whose life he saved by personally making sure that the boy received a liver transplant. He was a hero tot he children that he visited in hospitals. He was a hero to his children. I think it’s incredibly sad that you choose to put a negative slant on the media’s positive reflections on him. Those positive words have taken far too long to be said; it should not have taken his death for someone so good to be praised, rather than reviled.

To Princess Dre, the author of this post did not say that he wasn’t big, just he should not be as important as people see him.
I believe that all the soldiers who died on that day did more for
the world than MJ did I mean he died from a drug addiction for
goodness sake! besides I never have nor will like his music, to me it sucks compared to Avenged sevenfold or Breaking Benjemin ect. I am not the only one with that view, so what if he made some advancements in music? did anyone make as much to do about any medical doctors who made any advancements? NO! those people werent even reconized until hundreds of years after there death and there is no counting how many lives they have saved. bottom line people are making entertianment too important in thier lives. end of discussion.

No he wasn’t a hero. He just donated all the profits from his Dnagerous tour to his Heal the World Foundation. He donated money and lots of it to 39 different charities. He visited orphanages in other countries on all of his tours and made sure the children were given gifts and taken better care of. No he wasn’t a hero.

Great article. Can’t think of anything else to say that hasn’t been said already