Was Jesus a Socialist

i am a Christian. i feel it is a duty to pay
taxes to support society, and these monies should
be used to help the less fortunate. if i feel it
is a duty to pay taxes to help the less fortunate, can
i claim Jesus is a socialist, or do you have
what He is locked up ?

matthew 16: 19-21

a Government’s purpose is justice; the church’s is mercy. A Christian who depends on the government to do what God has asked him to do is a lazy Christian. Paying taxes is not voluntary, therefore, is not an act of worship. Let me ask the Christian who pays his taxes as a duty to help the less fortunate, are you also tithing–the full tithe? Your tithe is an act of worship, to give to the Kingdom of heaven, given cheerfully. When Jesus came, he did not come and reform the government to make it an instrument of His Kingdom. The hearts of believers is where His kingdom lies. We pray “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”…remember when the Israelites demanded a king when they were given the promised land? God said it was a SIN for them to ask for a king, because He alone was their GOD!!! Why would we make the same mistake of demanding a king (a government) in place of God to do what He has asked us to do???? No– socialism is an enemy of the devil, a perverse twist of what God’s kingdom is supposed to be about. That’s the way the devil works, by the way, it “feels good” to those who are being deceived. Jesus said, “Don’t be deceived…..” He warned us it would happen!

This was not intended to be a treatise on Jewish history or Jewish tradition which Paul counted as dung. It was intended to show the evil of socialism….

Countic is another of the paper tigers who post anonymously. With anonymity comes irresponsibility. The whole thrust of this response is socialism, not Christianity and the attempt to prove they are the same. It sounds like B Hussein Obama and Joe the tax raiser Biden.

BTW the word welfare in the preamble of the constitution was not WELFARE as in handout to the lazy and greedy but the GENERAL WELFARE of all. This is another liberal misunderstanding.

Other than your historical dating is pretty bad I agree.

First off, I came across this website randomly while looking for similarities between socialism (small S…not strict Marxism but general concept of “taking care of each other) and Jesus. If you argue about reputations and identifications as the means to which a person’s argument is valid…then you have serious debating problems. Ad hominem attacks are often the single biggest indicator of a lack of defense for a person’s beliefs. From here on I will go point by point in addressing the errors of your statement response to me Ralph Brandt.

“BTW the word welfare in the preamble of the constitution was not WELFARE as in handout to the lazy and greedy but the GENERAL WELFARE of all.”

1) You equate poor to lazy. Infact, that is the only way this statement can make sense because if the poor are not equated to lazy then there is a legitimate concern for GENERAL WELFARE if the poor are working very hard. In today’s society, that is certainly the case. Sure, there are a few who manage to slip through the cracks and take advantage of the system. That will always happen. But when you argue the general point that the poor are the lazy you insult anywhere between 50 and 100 million Americans who work 2-3 jobs about 50 hours a week and still make less than $20,000. I am one of them. Your ignorance towards the hard working poor of this country is a slap in Jesus’ face.

“This is another liberal misunderstanding.”

2) I am a Conservative Christian. Someone has his labels mixed up and misplaced.

Strangely enough, a lot of Neo-Cons use your reasoning to keep charity private, with no general welfare taxation…so that they do not have to give to charity. Argue all day long that its supposed to be private only, and then people like yourself never donate. To me…thats disbelief in the system and disbelief in God as that type of person clearly does not feel they will be convicted on judgement day.

Lets be clear and concise. Jesus said take care of the poor….period. He didn’t say “do it this way or do it that.” He didn’t say “you gotta have the right heart or not the right heart.” He just said “do it.” Its nothing about the giver, and everything about the receiver. Those who try to make some argument to get themselves out of giving when they have that responsibility…are sinning, whether its taxes or private or any other form.

You pontificate with the smugness of the money changers. Jesus… not the Christ… was indeed socialist and community organizer. But then, what have you given to the poor lately?

“First, I gave more than Joe Biden and B Hussein Obama together last year.

You are a horse’s butt who has no idea what is happening.

And I got raped by the liberals for nearly 30K$ in taxes…

At least some of that would have been given to the poor rather than the rich government pukes…”

Lovely Christian talk. Great site! No…no, it’s not.
“21Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” “

I’d say give to the rich or go to hell is just as bad as taxes.

This article is crap.. Jesus taught that if we had more than our neighbor to give all that we have to them.

God forbid we would want to pay higher taxes and have things like free health care and free college.

God forbid the poor in this country might actually have a chance…

Taxes are VOLUNTARY. You are not forced to pay them. You volunteer to pay them in exchange for the services the govt provides. Don’t like it? Get out!

Jesus wasn’t a socialist. He was an anarcho-socialist. He was against all forms of oppression, economic and governmental.

Wouldn’t he be against war, police brutality, AND taxes that fund these things? Are these things not oppressive as well? These things automatically come with government.

Fine, he was what would be called today a libertarian socialist. Basically the same thing. People in communities to taking care of each other and making sure people have what they need to rise to their full potential to contribute to the good of all.

I’m not an Obama supporter since I don’t support Democrans or Republicrats, but who would you prefer to see ruling the country?

And just curious, did you also think Bush was a “devil possessed man”?….for killing innocent children in Iraq? I think that’s a little worse than taxes. In other words do you think a good Christian would wage war at all if we are supposed to be emulating Christ?

How is peace evil?

When did I say I’m pro-abortion?

You are using the Bible like Islamic extremists use the Koran/Quran–to support war and terrorism. How can you glorify war? How is it okay that we’ve killed mothers and infants and pregnant women in Iraq and Afghanistan? Are we not stooping to the same level as our enemies? Where is your Christian compassion?

I don’t believe that the men who wrote the Bible knew God’s perfect word. They were only men. The Bible does have some pretty nasty things in it. I don’t think God would condone stoning children for instance. You don’t have to take it so literally.

God can’t love war if He loves His children. We owe it to Him to exhaust other tactics before we continue killing 90% innocent civilians.

I never said I support Obama. In fact, I explicitly said:

“I’m NOT an Obama supporter since I DON’T support Democrans or Republicrats” in my second post. And I misspelled them on purpose.

It seems like you’re assuming Obama is some crazed leftist communist like FOX is telling you. Ask any true communist and they will tell you they don’t support taking money away from working class and poor people to give to the rich corporations and banks. In fact, the communists I know are extremely furious at this injustice. More so than anyone else I’ve spoken to since their whole fight is about equality and Obama’s policies are unfair to the everyday citizen.

You’re also equating communism/socialism with authoritarianism. What we have today is a corporate authoritarian state. It’s still capitalism but fascist capitalism. Just like there can be authoritarian communism or anarcho-communism.

If you think THIS is what traditional leftists (not the neoliberals) want, then you are mistaken.

Fine I’ll be more clear. I oppose ALL Democrans and Republicrats. I oppose Obama. I oppose Biden. I oppose Dodd. I oppose Pelosi. I oppose Alan Keyes. I oppose Sarah Palin. I oppose Bill O’Riely. I oppose Keith Oldberman. I despise neoliberal capitalism.

I did not vote for Obama or any other Democrat or Republican. I despise authoritarianism and the fact that people actually think they have a choice in an election when the media decides who will be winning the election anyway.

I am neither a liberal nor a conservative.

The whole political and electoral system is corrupt. I don’t support a ruling political class that receives money from the ruling capitalist class to do its bidding. THAT is evil.

So because I really don’t have a choice to vote for who I want, it’s my fault that Obama is president? And I support abortion because I didn’t vote for McCain?

I’m having a hard time figuring out your logic and your black and white only thinking.–”you’re either with us, or you’re with the terrorists” right? That’s bull. I don’t have to support torture to be against terrorism. I don’t have to accept the killings of innocent people to get a minority of evil ones. I wouldn’t ever kill an abortionist to stop all abortions. It doesn’t work that way.

If you want to stop murder and terror you have to take a long look at the causes and implement plans to lessen the effects and eventually wipe it out. The causes of terror and violence:

poverty, unemployment, racism, classism, hunger, lack of real education (meaning critical thinking skills), lack of love, disease, various forms of oppression, exploitation etc.

Until we address these things with real solutions we will always have a culture of violence. As far as I’m concerned you are promoting this culture with your pro-war stance. As long as things like war are allowed to be a “solution”, so will abortions.

That’s all you’ve got?

I don’t have an account here because I was only searching in google: Jesus and socialism. Because I think Jesus would find capitalism creates advantages for the already rich and holds the poor down. That’s hardly Christ-like.

What do you want to know about me to make my statements more valid for you?

It’s not like I keep using different names to trick you. I’ve never been to this site before. I didn’t realize that my argument is baseless because I don’t have an account. My name is Nicole Bozzuto. Happy? I live in New England. I’m 29 years old. I have brown hair and brown eyes. I work and go to school full time. I look forward to getting a job in the nonprofit sector.

There is no need to call me names. If you want to have a debate that’s fine. But how am I an “irresponsible idiot” for working for more democracy, peace, and ending poverty? If you want to stop abortions maybe you should be working for these things as well.

I will pray for you.

I’m glad we can talk about this.

Well, I’m not a liberal. Liberals have faith in capitalism and the government and I don’t. I’ve had my ideas in place before I went to school and I believe I’m intelligent enough to question my professors when they are putting forth their opinions.

I haven’t been indoctrinated, I question. That’s why I’ve come to the conclusions I have. And we agree on the fact that there are some wars that have to be fought and some that were a big mistake. And yes, I’m aware of the Gulf of Tonkin fiasco. Vietnam was definitely not a necessary war like WWII. But I would put Iraq in the same loose category as Vietnam.

In WWII we were fighting against a genocide. Now we are fighting against “terror.” There are terrorists in this country like the various KKK groups who murder minorities and make bombs. There are “pro-lifers” who stoop to the level of murder. The Oklahoma City bombing. The planned bombing of a synagogue recently. Are we bombing these organizations? If we did how would we look to the people who were even marginally sympathetic to these terrorists? Don’t you think this would garner more sympathy and support for like organizations from these kinds of people in the U.S?

Terrorists are everywhere. It is impossible to stop this kind of violence unless we get to the root of the problem. I’m not merely talking about negotiation or pacifism. It must be more than that. And it has to address the problems that cause this kind of violence.

One other item. You decry the radicals of Christianity, the pro-life etc.

There is one difference – If you look at the response of Christians you will see an outrage against these events. Christians do not support these radicals who most of the time are nut cases that are operating outside the church and certainly never at its direction or teaching.

In islam the radicals are supported by the main stream islam, they are looked upon as the protectors of the faith.

Terry McVeigh, the killers of abortion doctors, the bombers of synagoggues are not looked upon as heroes in Chrisitainity. Imost christians woudl have turned them in….

In islam they protect the terrorists…

Let’s try this. Go to a Muslim country and preach christianity. You will be attacked not just by the radicals but by the average Muslim. They have an religious inferiority complex they inherited from their founder, Mohammed, the thieving, murdering, pedophile, his name be damned. (He raided camel caravans and married a nine year old girl – that is history). Their religion cannot stand in the free market of ideas so they have pressed it with the sword.

Check out FGM on the web. It is practiced to keep women pure.

It has less to do with the particular religion than it does with the type of social norms and the (repressive) culture. Their “religious inferiority complex” is the result of many factors and not about the specific religion.

Here in America we have various cultures and a secular laws. This keeps any kind extremists from making an ancient text the rule of law. Diversity serves a society well. That way no one has a monopoly on ideology and we give respect to all points of view. Instead of saying “it’s either black or it’s white” we can say, “let’s talk about this.”

If we adopted a theocracy and every word of the Bible became law would also suffer from limited women’s rights and people could also justify throwing stones at children etc. Anyone with the most fire power and money could tell us his interpretation is the right one. These are imperfect books and with imperfect people interpreting them.

Don’t you think there are good Muslim people as well as bad as with any religion?

It also has to do with the fact that it’s a tough neighborhood out there. Fascism seems take hold when people are desperate or poverty stricken. They need something to blame and someone to control.

I’m also aware of the barbaric practice of FGM. It disgusts me. This is why feminism is still important world wide. Basic human rights are still being denied and torture is widespread.

First, drop the oppressed and marginalized crap and that is what it is, crap. It is excusing bad behavior. It is animal, not human. Humans have conscience, animals do not including animals who are in human form that act like that. You can justify Jessie James, John Dillinger and the likes if you take that approach. You can also justify Ray Nagin and the other Jackson from Louisiana. I don’t buy it. And for the most part the Koran doesn’t teach it but the radical muslims read it that way. Unfortunately unlike Christianity that is not a .01% minority but a 25% minority. Worse, nearly all of the other 99+% of christians will decry and many will speak out against the excesses. I do – I know many others who do. I believe abortion is murder but killing a doctor who performs them is too. I do think the government has it wrong in limiting protests – that has helped bring on the violence because those of us who oppose abortion have been oppressed and marginalized by it and feel we must strike out with violence to stop it. DID YOU SEE HOW STUPID THAT LAST STATEMENT SOUNDED!?

I agree that the civil government must be secular. We have pretty much had that in the US since the constitution. This is being infringed upon because Muslims are being given rights in Schools and businesses that christians do not have. We have a man who works in our building that prays several times a day – he is muslim. I wonder if I would have that right if I decided to do it. Please understand – I would defend his right to do so if it were questioned – the illegitimacy of islam is not the issue, the freedom of religious practice is the question.

But in Islamic theoracies there is no freedom of anything.

You want to protect unborn life by government mandate; Why not the poor? I don’t think inconsistency makes a good case for anything.
If someone is actually starving, you must first feed him. Then teach him. Dead people can’t learn how to fish.

Actually, liberals want to do both — make sure that everyone is fed AND educated.

Public libraries are socialized information.

Buy all your books, newspapers, and magazines.

“Free AOL” for everyone is a socialist concept. How dare people be allowed to express their ideas without first paying $14.95 per month? If it’s free, then any idiot can come on here and… oh … nevermind.

Public schools are socialist.
The Military, socialism.

The Interstate Highway System — Socialist! If you take that on-ramp, yer a Commie!

Municipal water systems are socialist.

Taxes are voluntary, my butt! The IRS should be abolished. We will be entering some mean times and I think you all should stop trying to best each other-no one will win. It’s the same old, same old… of each one’s interpretations of what the Bible says. I too, don’t know how accurate it really is, nor do I think it is the real words of God-however, it’s a good guide to go by.

I SAID.. Check, I never said that taxes were voluntary. I said God’s plan was voluntarily giving. Taxes are extortion, pay to keep the government away.

“The one is voluntary giving, the laying down ones life (in the form of labor and money). The other is being taxed – that is the money is forcefully taken. I am sure that some will argue this is not forcefully taken but look at what happens if the tax is not paid. It will eventually come to it being taken by force. The tax man will come, then the police (in some form) will come. Either the money or liberty will be forfeited. It is taken forcibly. It is just done nicer than the mob protection rackets”

You identify yourself as a socialist. You read and understand like one. I never equated Jesus to the socialist, I contrasted them because the the socialist is a robbing hood while Jesus says, give willingly.