On Atheists and Agnostics
by An independent view on Christians, atheists and agnostics without picking a side.
The battle between religious Christians and atheists has existed for a long time. The Christians argument that God (being omnipotent, omniscient and the creator of the world) exists. The atheists deny the existence of a God of that kind. Neither tension has so far come up with proof that has been accepted by the other camp. The arguments from Atheists have been mainly logical, while the arguments of the Christians have been mainly a matter of belief. Atheist do not believe and therefore disagree with arguments like: “I just know that he is there, how can’t you see it?” “But it has been written in the Bible and the Bible has been created by God.” These arguments are based on belief and not on logics and therefore will never persuade atheists or agnostics. On the other hand we have the atheists coming up with arguments like the evolution theory by Charles Darwin or theoretical proof induced by logics. Neither of these arguments will ever persuade a true believer, because he or she will contest the proof. If you have what you believe to be the word of God on one hand and a theory created by some guy on the other hand, you will never read the texts unprejudiced next to each other.
Agnosticism Versus Atheism
By the creation of the term agnosticism by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869, there comes another player into the field. Now it is possible to hold none of the arguments of atheists, nor Christians to be true. Agnostics accept most sciences and scientific proof, but they argue that one can never know everything. Basically you can use the “empty room example”. An Atheist will say that God is not in the empty room. He will tell you that he can neither, see, hear, smell, feel or sense the presence of God, so God can’t be there. The agnostic will counter that you can never be sure. Maybe God cannot be sensed in any way the Atheist tried. Of course the agnostic will never say that God is therefore present. He will merely say: “Maybe God is there, I don’t know.”
Agnosticism Versus Christianity
While most agnostics will not attack Christianity, they will not be very inviting towards it either. You can imagine someone trying to convert an agnostic and saying: “Come on let’s go to church and praise the lord.” To which the agnostic will reply that he’s not about to worship a God, who he is not sure exists. Then the Christian will try to proof to him that there is a God and the agnostic person will say: “Maybe you’re right, but you haven’t convinced me.”
Personal View
I think that all sides can go wrong. Atheists can make the mistake that they believe they are right and there is no place for others. They can consider the people who do not believe them being ignorant. Agnostics can have a view that is extremely a-religious and therefore they can sometimes fail to see the good or interesting sides of religion. Studying a religion and religious texts can still be interesting if you don’t have a religion. Christians can fall into the trap of trying to convert someone to their religion, rather than trying to spread out their true value. Isn’t the Bible trying to teach you how to be a good person and giving you some guidelines? If Jesus had to choose between burning a Bible and saving an innocent person from death, what would he do? You can still preach moral values without having certain things you have to do. One can be a good person without reading the Bible and without going to church. One can also be a bad person if you still read the Bible and go to church a lot. So that is not where the true value of Christianity lies. It lies in the aspiration of being a good person, rather than the worshipping without a clue.
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Post CommentRachel
On May 25, 2008 at 9:50 am
So very true. Just because you read the bible and attend church service/mass does not make you ’save’.
Whereas another person who does good deeds without following any ‘formal’ religion is more ’save’ when time comes to meet the Creator!
Just my view
Daniel
On May 25, 2008 at 7:10 pm
It not easy to be neutral these days, still all sides try to be in power of everything , I often have to take an agressive defensive position because of the you can’t be a good person with out believe stuff that some religions give you as answer. So often don’t reach the point of beeing neutral or fair because i feel beeing oppressed by religious views. Thank you very much Jotter for your short view of that topic.
Daniel
Mark Givens
On June 3, 2008 at 1:08 am
“One can also be a bad person if you still read the Bible and go to church a lot. So that is not where the true value of Christianity lies. It lies in the aspiration of being a good person, rather than the worshipping without a clue.”
Wonderfully put.
In this day and age, opinions are not likely to be swayed. Everybody has access to a world of information that exceeds our own immediate grasp, so it’s far easier to formulate intricate opinions… the best we can do is represent our constituent of belief by living with a respectful mind for every other ideology.
Very thought-provoking, thank-you for that, Jotter.
Karen Gross
On April 21, 2009 at 1:05 pm
I disagree with most of your points in this article. The first is that there is no proof to defend Christianity. This could apply if God had never entered human history, either by speaking through prophets or by sending angels, working miracles, and of course by inserting Himself into human history by taking on human flesh and living among us for about thiry years. Eyewitnesses to Christ’s earthly life wrote the New Testament books. Before you say that the authenticity of these accounts cannot be documented, read some of my articles on the subject.
You do not describe Christianity authentically. It has nothing to do with good deeds and whether you are a good or bad person. The message of the Bible is that we are all sinners, and not a one of us deserves heaven instead of hell. The gospel message is that Christ paid the penalty due for our sins. Justice is replaced with mercy for those who accept the gift of Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf.
Christianity does not teach tolerance. One cannot truly believe in a literal God and a literal Satan, without acknowledgement of a literal eternity spent with your chosen leader. Unfortunately, because of original sin, Satan is the default choice. Christianity must be freely chosen – God gave us free will and then He highly recommends that you choose life.
Opinions are very difficult to sway. Christians are all called to serve God by teaching his word to the world. I believe that there is a literal place called hell, and that a just God cannot allow sinners into heaven. But the good news is that we don’t have to earn our way, for it is by grace we are saved, it is a gift from God. It is not earned by works, lest any man should boast.
This may sound exclusive, but it is actually the most inclusive of all religions. In other religions, it is impossible to know if one has done enough of whatever one’s god demands, whereas the God of Christianity will take anyone who honestly repents of his/her sin and asks for forgiveness. Even if you have lived a life of utter depravity, there is still hope if repentance comes before death. Is this fair? Not in our human concept of justice, no. In God’s economy, the price has already been paid for every sinner who repents. If you say that this is utter nonsense, you have not grasped the foundation of Christianity – that we are all sinners, whether you are a serial killer or just harboured hatred in your heart. (This does not negate the necessity for the earthly consequences of breaking the laws of the land.)
I know this comment is getting long, but I just wanted to address the next obvious question – what about being good, reading the Bible, and going to church? Christianity differs from all other religions in that we don’t earn our way by doing and being good. That is a side effect of our relationship with God. If you use the analogy of marriage, a couple who rarely see each other and don’t do anything nice for each other will still be legally married (unless they choose divorce). It just won’t be as fulfilling as a marriage with lots of romance and time spent together. Just as a marriage without romance is “dead”, so faith without works is dead – the lack of good works is a symptom of a failing relationship with God. It doesn’t mean that salvation is lost, not until the Christian makes a choice to give up the relationship with God. This is why so many Christians can say that they are Christians, even though their attitude and behavior say otherwise. Only that person and God know when the relationship is over, it is not for us to judge.
TheDragon319
On August 8, 2009 at 11:15 am
I agree with most of your points. After all if the existence of God could be proven, it would not be called “faith.” The fact that so many religions exist, means only one can be right and that one may not be discovered or created yet. I recommend the movie Religulous to anyone who has an open mind. It’s a movie by Bill Maher.